Magdalene Podcasts, Martin Luther, Married Jesus, Dan Brown, Mormons

Authors Joan Norton, Margaret Starbird and Burl Hall and the rest of us were discussing Martin Luther and the Sacred Feminine on our GoddessChristians forum.  Margaret wrote in as follows:

Among other strange opinions of Martin Luther, I stumbled into a quote of his from “Table Talks” to the effect that Jesus had affairs with three women: the women at the well, the woman taken in adultery, and Mary Magdalene.  I found this really interesting because it appears to me to be a “garbled” reference to Cathar beliefs that Mary Magdalene, the woman at the well, and the woman taken in adultery were all the same person (one woman–not three)…. But Luther was suggesting that Jesus had promiscuous relationships with all three! Pretty bizarre behavior, in my view!–in a time and place where people had strong taboos about promiscuity and were stoned for less….and from a rabbi who warned that to think lustfully about a woman was tantamount to committing “adultery in one’s heart.”

> VATICAN CITY (Reuters) – In the latest Vatican broadside against
> “The Da Vinci Code,” a leading cardinal says Christians should
> respond to the book and film with legal action because both offend
> Christ and the Church he founded.

Since Dan Brown derived his basic ideas about Mary Magdalene and Jesus from my “Woman with the Alabaster Jar,” I would like to say that when I wrote that book I was coming from the heart of the Roman Catholic Church and a charismatic prayer group that included two priests and six lay people to which I had belonged for about 15 years at the time. 

These people were encouraging me and praying for me while I was doing my research because we had been shown as a community that there was something important missing from the foundations of Christianity that had to do with the “denigrated Feminine.”

I gave my “Alabaster Jar” manuscript to my Roman Catholic priest/pastor–and to two Protestant ministers in 1991- before I ever dreamed of sending it to a publisher. All three of these clergymen knew me well and encouraged me to publish my book. In fact, the Catholic priest told me, “This could heal the Church.” I offered “Alabaster Jar” as a gift to the Church–one that would enable the patriarchy to embrace the “Feminine” embodied in Mary Magdalene and welcome her home with rejoicing! What a shame that they cannot see the healing that would inevitably flow from the “nuptials of the Lamb and his Bride.”

Carl Jung states in “Answer to Job” that it is incongruous to visualize Jesus embracing a church filled with people. He needs to embrace a woman… This image is beautifully expressed in the stained glass window from the Kilmore Church at Dervaig, a town on the Isle of Mull, (posted on my website) which shows Jesus and Mary “hand-fasted” (clasping right hands)–a symbol for marriage in the Christian liturgy…the “Bride” represents her land and people–as in the ancient metaphor of Yahweh’s undying love for his people….

There was never any intent to attack Jesus…. I was trying to “heal the wasteland” that ensues when the “Feminine” principle is denied and defamed, forced into exile and silenced….

In the triptych above the inner door at Mary Magdalene’s basilica at Vézeley, France, (the “Madeleine”), the left hand of Jesus is missing-probably vandalized, although it may have just broken off. What an incredible reminder that he can’t be “whole” without her! Since Judaism in the first century didn’t have a word for “bachelor” –and the word the Jews now use is “ravak”–“empty”–maybe we need to revisit the foundations of the Christian faith and restore the “lost Bride.”

peace and light,
Margaret
“Mary Magdalene, Bride in Exile”
http://www.margaretstarbird.net

 

Joan Norton, author of Mary Magdalene Within, responded:

    Hi Margaret,

    I wonder if Martin Luther’s  interpretation of the three women as Jesus’ “involvements” influenced Joseph Smith’s Mormon revelations that Jesus had more than one wife?  I know they put the  ritual of the bridal chamber at the center of things, but with the extra added twist of more than one wife.

     I put up a new podcast meditation today called “Beloveds in the Garden” at http://marymagdalenewithin.podomatic.com    and I don’t mean Jesus and three Beloveds! (chuckle)

  xoJoan

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And author Burl Hall wrote in with the following intriguing thoughts:

You say it all, Margaret.  In my work, I have come to the opinion that the wasteland we have created in the environment (endless wars, ecological destruction, sensationalist medias, etc.) is a mirror to the wasteland of our minds. I talk somewhat of the surface level ego mind, or empirical/rational thought as surface level with deep thought, the Feminine, lying underneath. By underneath I don’t mean this as a power relationship.  Indeed, Tehom, the Depths of Genesis 1:2, is Feminine and is the foundations of the Universe and ultimately the Mother of Light (Manifestation).  Furthermore, it is She that becomes this world.  As the Hindu Ramakrishna puts it, “The Unmanifest (Being…Tehom…Brahman….Yahweh…Marie…Tao) shines forth as Shakti (the Goddess, Divine Energy, Sophia)…and Shakti takes form as this entire universe.”

Sometimes when I close my eyes I watch images dance in my mind.  They tend to shapeshift and will often play with me as if I were an external being.  They are so much fun. And, they appear aware of me as much as I am aware of them. … When I watch these images dance (they do indeed have a life of their own that is beyond my controlling ego) I realize they are the creation of something deeper…furthermore, I realize that the power within me that is creating this wonderful display is not separate from that Power that births, supports and dissolves the cosmos.  To “see” that Power, I go behind the images and into the Darkness, the Darkness upon the face of the Deep.  (Mary or Marie also means Ocean as per the terms Marine, Marina, etc.).

So, when Sophia (the Agent of Becoming, the Holy Spirit) came upon Tehom as the Holy Spirit in Genesis and the Holy Spirit moved upon Marie in the New Testament, are we perhaps repeating the same story?  “The Unmanifest (Marie) shines forth as Shakti (Sophia) and Shakti is simply the luminous darkness of the Unmanifest,” Ramakrishna says. Or as Paul McCarney says, “When I find myself in times of trouble, Mother Mary comes to me.  Speaking words of Wisdom, Let It Be.”  Mary and Sophia are akin to water and wetness, they are not two.  McCartney may not have been consciously aware of this….but, hey, Sophia speaks beneath the ego.  Anyhow, the way I see this relation of Mary the Magdeline (She of the Temple Towers is a definition?) as Wife and Mary the Virgin as Mother.  These are not, from a non-historical perspective, two Women.  From a mystical dimension, the birth from Marie is reflective of Motherhood of Woman while the Fate function of Woman is reflected in the Magdeline as Wife or Bride.  I look at this as the Goddess as Mother and the Goddess as Fate.  One is birth from Woman, the Unmanifest, the other is the return Home, to the Unmanifest.  Women in their physical bodies mirror this cosmic power of birth, maintanence and fate or dissolution.

This too speaks of Jung with his notion of the Feminine as the Unconscious.  I do not see the Feminine as Unconscious as much as suppressed.  When I think of Sophia, I think of Her in my body and think, “Now I don’t know how my heart is beating or how fast, yet She is in my body monitoring all of this and through a complicated system of communications is making changes.”  This same intelligence is worldwide and, indeed, universe wide.  Earth is an integrated system every bit as much as our body.  Furthermore, the surface level intelligence doesn’t know how to listen (which manifest in the words of many women who say that men don’t know how to listen…this is true for how we relate to women AND our inner worlds, which are suppressed at worst or at best turned into media propaganda (e.g., advertising…this is one reason we have created a wasteland).

Suppressing the Feminine externally is the suppression of the Feminine internally.  I recall as a child how many artists, true artists, were ridiculed as being effeminite. Why?  Because they are able to tap into the wild, unruly and surprisingly rebellious or evolutionary Feminine Intelligence.  Deep Femininty is a danger to the status quo for She is the agent of change.  As the Book of Wisdom says, “She renews the world.”  All things change and transform in accordance to Sophia.  This is why the Feminine scares us.  It means dissolution of the old and the birth of the new. 

Anyway, you probably weren’t looking for all of this in a response.  Its the prozac!  Thanks for your post and your work.

–Burl

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I posted some thoughts about the Vatican saying Magdalene and Jesus being married is an insult, a blasphemy against Christianity and that Christians should rise up and riot, bring lawsuits, etc. against those who believe these harmless (and inspiring, if you ask me) things.  I wrote:

Yeah, notice how they are quick to say Christ and the “Church he founded” have been gravely insulted by the suggestion he may have been a full man with a woman and kids in his life yet, yet, YET, they do nothing when those horrible paintings of someone urinating on the crucified Jesus, or defecating on him or Mary are displayed prominently in famous NY (and other city) art galleries.  That is one reason to call a “Christian Fatwa” if you ask me and is similar in theory (altho not degree!) to the Mohammed cartoons.  Just imagine if urine and feces had been done to Mohammed.  They freaked when the pages of a copy of the Koran might have been used as toilet paper when Muslims (and others) burn Torahs, Bibles and flags all the time.

Don’t get me started…. but rock on Margaret for tellin’ ’em like it is — the Church needs the “denigrated Feminine” RESTORED and it ain’t an insult to nobody, least of all Jesus/Yeshua.

Katia

 

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Katia

Katia is a consecrated independent sacramental bishop. She directs the online Esoteric Mystery School and Interfaith Theological Seminary. Check it out at NorthernWay.org.

6 thoughts on “Magdalene Podcasts, Martin Luther, Married Jesus, Dan Brown, Mormons”

  1. ” I wonder if Martin Luther’s interpretation of the three women as Jesus’ “involvements” influenced Joseph Smith’s Mormon revelations that Jesus had more than one wife? I know they put the ritual of the bridal chamber at the center of things, but with the extra added twist of more than one wife.”

    And the ignorance bus just keeps on rolling. There is NO revelations from Joseph Smith, or any other Mormon Prophet about Jesus having more than one wife. Now, there was in the 19th Century some Mormon authorities who *speculated* about the possibility he was married to Mary and Marha. However, speculation doesn’t mean revelation or doctrine. And it was decades after Joseph Smith was killed they thought of the ideas.

  2. Margaret: I gave my “Alabaster Jar” manuscript to my Roman Catholic priest/pastor–and to two Protestant ministers in 1991- before I ever dreamed of sending it to a publisher. All three of these clergymen knew me well and encouraged me to publish my book. In fact, the Catholic priest told me, “This could heal the Church.”

    Don Eli: This is the first time I have considered that the Goddess/Gnostic revival can heal the church, rather than destroy it. This is an option that the church could take advantage of, or make very difficult to happen. Perhaps it is the people, and not the leaders, who will make it happen.

    Agape,
    Don Eli

  3. I didn’t express myself fully about Joseph Smith and plural marriage and the possible influence of Martin Luther. My thought was that I know Joseph Smith lived in what was called “the burned out district” in upstate New York when he first got his revelations. It was a place known for tremendous religious fervor and many, many groups practicing new kinds of Christianity. The atmosphere was rife with new interpretations of religion. At one time he was influenced by coming into contact with Masons and their practices, so I just wondered if Martin Luther could have been an influence on him too.
    And to Burl, I love your phrase “rebellious or evolutionary Feminine Intelligence”. I’ve noticed something in working with this evolutionary wisdom in women’s dreams. A woman will often go along her own path of rejecting the status quo, following “the Magdalene” within, going her own way, defining her own spirituality, and having visionary kind of dreams for herself. She may wonder if she’ll be alone and unpartnered but know that she can’t fulfill a worn out role anymore. Where is the sacred Masculine in the men she knows? And then along will come a dream where a wonderful man kisses her and is in love with her. It’s an unknown person, a new man. It always reminds me of how we’re told that “Jesus kissed her often….” , the Special Kiss for the Beloved. She’s had a dream visit from the inner Bridegroom, the one who loves the “evolutionary Feminine” who is renewing the world.
    Joan
    http://marymagdalenewithin.podomatic.com

  4. Margaret

    I agree with you the Church needs to see the Bride of Christ because she plays a central role of a new heaven and a new earth.

    I also think that the Church needs to have a clear understanding of who Mary Magdalene is and her relationship to Jesus in order to heal the many factions within the Church.

    I do not doubt for a moment that She the Woman of the Resurrection and the Man of the Resurrection were lovers before the Crucifixion. However this is where I depart from you. I do not think that Mary Magdalene and Jesus were physically or lawfully married.

    Communion liturgy teaches that the Crucifixion breaks the body of Christ in two. So I think there is a mystery here that invites us to see the Teacher of the Resurrection and the Woman called Mary as the other Jesus. One Jesus was lifted high on the Cross and the other was denigrated as a rebel, a thief and a murderer.

    Everybody has a different opinion about Jesus Barabbas (Matthew 27:17). Most think of Barabbas, that literally means son of the fathers, as male. Perhaps this is because they cannot conceive of the Woman as the Son of the Father.

    If people connect all three women that Luther believes had an adulterous relationship with Jesus as Mary Magdalene, a case can be made for Jesus Barabbas being the Woman who was caught in Adultery.

    Jesus stood up for the Woman caught in Adultery. But he told her to Go and Sin no more (John 8: 11). People then tried to stone him and accused him of being a Samaritan and having a demon, but Jesus hid from them and went out of the Temple (John 8 48, 50).

    Before dismissing the idea of Jesus being caught in Adultery as just mere speculation, consider the significance of Adultery. King David committed adultery with Bathsheba and the prophet Nathan accused him of stealing a poor man’s lamb who was like a daughter to the poor man (2 Samuel 11 – 12).

    Now read the story of the raising of Lazarus. Pay close attention to verse 8 and verse 28.

    “Rabbi, the Jews were just now trying to stone you, and are you going there again?” … She [Martha] went and told her sister privately, The Teacher is her and is ecalling for you.” Some texts use the word secretly instead of privately.

    People even today see adultery as a crime against the family They see the act of adultery as an act of theft that leads to the death or breakdown of the health of the family. So of course they do not want to even think that Jesus their King, Lord and Savior would ever commit such a scandalous act.

    Yet confession of sins and repentance are as central to Christianity as the scandal of the Cross.

    Paul says in Romans, the sixth book of the New Testament ” We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin (Romans 6,6 NRSV).

    Now imagine John’s Resurrection scene. The Woman of John’s Gospel standing face to face with the Man she thinks is the Gardener and calls Rabbouni. The Rabbouni tells her not to touch him. Why does he say that to the Woman? Why does she call him Rabbouni and see him as a gardener? Could the answer to these questions possibly be linked to John 3 and John 15:1?

    In John 3, Jesus [the Woman] meets with the great teacher and leader of the Jews in secret, at night. In this passage Jesus says. “And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.”

    In John 15: 1 (NIV) Jesus says, I am the true vine and my Father is the gardener.

    In Galatians 5:24-25, Paul says. “And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also be guided by the Spirit.”

    So let us be guided by the Holy Spirit, the woman coming and teaching in the name of Jesus as one who was crucified with him and who rose on the third day with him to give birth to a new Humanity, God’s only Daughter/Son and restore the Garden of Life.

    Making Mary Magdalene the Bride to give her equality with Jesus or to allow her to teach in the name of Jesus is indeed a noble quest. But it robs Martha of the role of Bride.

    Remember there are two people named Jesus in the Crucifixion story according to Matthew and one is a robber.

    Equating Jesus Barabbas with the woman accused of adultery, stealing the Bride’s role and equating this women with Mary Magdalene gives Mary Magdalene the role of Spirit and gives the role of Bride back to Martha, the Lady of the House who recognizes and calls Jesus her Lord and calls to Mary secretly (John 11:28 KJV).

    Before you or your readers dismiss this as just idle speculation. Consider that Nicodemus, a great leader and teacher of Israel, played a part in burying the body of Jesus (John 19:39-40). Then consider the Book of Revelation 22: 16 -17. The text reads:

    “It is I, Jesus, who sent my angel to you with this testimony for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.” The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” And let everyone who hears say “Come.” And let everyone who is thirsty come. Let anyone who wishes take the water of life as a gift.

    I believe that the promise of a new heaven and a new earth [a new creation] can come to those who believe that Jesus a leader and teacher of the Jews was truly married and that his Bride forgave him and Mary Magdalene because I believe that the power of confession, repentance and forgiveness allowed them to rise on the third day and talk face to face.

  5. Curious, has anyone ever noticed,that the three that would tarry, the three that walked with, the three that would never taste death, the three were each a Mary,(from the Book of Nephi, the book of St. John, and the book of Philip) and wonderd if Mormon and Mary Magdalene aren’t the same person? What if Ohio’s Serpent Mound could be identified with the story of Revelation’s chapter 12? (see Ancient American Issue Number 63 New Find Identifies Great Serpent Mound With Meteor Strike by Frank Joseph). And what if Serpent Mound could be used to locate Joseph Smith’s hill? Artifacts such as the Bat Creek Stone are being found in what were believed to be Indian mounds, what if Smith’s hill was in fact a mound. On a 1715 map of The Five Nations, such a mound is shown in the fork of the river of Honeoye Falls (I have a copy of the map if you would like to see it). What if Joseph Smith’s secret is hidden in the name of the location? Honeoye, hone a stone for sharpping tools, and oyer, a hearing in open court involving the production of some document pleaded by one party and demanded by the other, the party pleading the document being said to make profert., (Websters). You can see the mound site ( a snake like formation in the river with the mound site in the serpents mouth) on Terra Sever Imagery look for Honeoye N.Y. And what about the vesuvius eruption of 79 A.D. desribed in chapter 8 of 3rd Nephi? Was Mary in the area at the time? And several times in 3rd Nephi the three who tarry are referred to, 3rd Nephi 28-2,4,6 John my beloved? 7 never taste of death? where have we read this before? vs 12, 25,36,38 Forth Nephi 1 vs 14. And those of you with a Urbino Illuminated Family Bible, can see Mary Magdalene (in the back of the book) wearing the breastplate referred to in the origin of the book of Mormon ( I have a copy of that as well ). With all the attention given to Dan Brown, and Simcha Jacobovici, we can’t assume the story ends in southern France, or in Jerusalem. We know ancient Hebrews have come to America, artifacts have been found all across the Ohio river valley, Michigan, and New York. Was it Mary? or maybe someone from the intermediate family? I can’t say I wasn’t there, but, it makes sense.

  6. Hello,

    There are 3 podcasts at this site which you might like to listen to:

    http://desposyni.podbean.com/

    They have the following titles:
    1. Jesus and Mary Magdalene – The
    Ultimate Love Story in Jesus’ Own Words
    2. Jesus’ Use of the Secret 13th Zodiac Sign
    And December 21, 2012
    3.Secret 1,940 year old Document from Jesus
    Introduces You to “The Comforter” of Today

    Be Well.

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